Men must be part of the solution to gendered violence

So, Mat how effective was the research? Most of what you are saying we were saying in the 80s in courses like, 'Being an Australian Man in the 1980s'. However I agree that leaders should be giving better example. The PM and his mob are scarcely even poor examples. But how about going a bit deeper? Look at some of the deeper analytic factors. Much of the violent behaviour occurs when the woman says she is leaving. An adult response would involve negotiating, counselling, family therapy and possibly adult grieving and parting. An underdeveloped male will react like a child weaned inadequately. Separation anxiety ensues and rage ends in violence. That is not adult the behaviour of a man losing someone he loves. It is a regression to a primitive childhood state of terror and deprivation where mother is abandoning the little boy and he fears annihilation. Adequately developed men do not act that way. But you have to think about the whole system. Mothers are the first people who teach boys how to react to women. And fathers need to provide model behaviours and options. Only by considering the whole system will we begin to understand. Simply telling men they have to pull their socks up often confuses decent men who are trying and it is poor analysis of the situation. No matter how much militant feminists would see all the problems emanating from men. We are just not that powerful.

I left school at the beginning of the sixties at fifteen years of age. I knew virtually nothing about sex. I was employed by a large retailer employing about six hundred people whom 95% were female the department I worked in was all male. The denigration of women was constant while sex was the main conversation often in graphic detail as in what women want/expect while conferring on me what is expected in my behavior if I want to be a man which possibly for some was a reflection of their own dissatisfaction/regrets/ties with married life, as in don’t settle down, go out and enjoy yourself, etc. When I look back, I realize that I was living out others' life expectations (It wasn’t really me) in how I should behave. Today I feel thoroughly ashamed of myself. One could resent what these older men imparted to me but of course, they were only acting out what had originally been imparted to them. Education, education, and more education is the key if these cycles of cruel and misogyny attitudes are to be broken. Please consider continuing via the link. https://www.catholicethos.net/original-feminism-catholic-church-pro-woman-organization-world/#comment-203

Has your research shed any light on contact sport as a factor in the production of abusive males? If small boys are taught to use physical force to prevail over opposition and (by implication) that this is acceptable in all contexts, then it seems to me that breeds attitudes that feed into violence against women. Another cultural phenomenon I've noticed is the prevalence in Netflix and other TV programs of plots that depend on the murder, kidnapping, rape and other mistreatment of young women or girls. Some of them get rescued by the hero/heroine just in time, but all are exposed to violence and terror while we watch. It seems to me that these plots normalize violent abuse of women, so that when it occurs in real life we are insufficiently outraged.

Michael Breen and Kevin Walters have made very valid and very different observations of the cause of violence against others. This is to be expected of any analysis of a situation which has many causes and many triggers. Violence towards others is most commonly reactionary rather ran primarily a deliberately conceived behaviour except when initiated by those who have a defective mentality either temporary, as with drug taking of various sorts including alcohol, or permanent, as with psychiatric conditions such a schizophrenia of frank insanity. As suggested by Michael Breen reactive violence towards others has many dimensions not necessarily driven entirely by the male of the species. Kevin Walters on the other hand describes a different beast which is bred within a culture of satisfying male sexual desiring which does not view the game of sexual satisfaction as violence. This particular type of conditioning is not peculiar to the male and is also a trait of a large cohort of the modern female liberated from a Victorian/Christian expected mode of behaviour by the pill, the adoption of equality with the male in sexual pursuit and the abolition of societal condemnation provided by abortion on demand. It is not "overwhelmingly about the behaviour of men and boys" as suggested in this article. Unhappily the research conducted as described in this article is invalid, based on a prepared base of questions which skews the result in favour of preconceived concepts of cause. Both sides of the coin have to be recognised and the research would be better controlled if the questions exploring the causes (a very difficult design task) were put to equal numbers of both men and women. Otherwise it is purely speculative and doesn't allow any valid conclusions. Questioning men or women alone cannot correct for untruths expressed in the cause of self-interests.

I assume of course that you will also call out the patriarchy of the Church with its myriad rules about what females can and cannot do, such as not being priests. Not to mention its centuries-old practice of running single sex schools where misogynistic cultures can develop.

Good contribution to the discourse Matt...Thanks...just wondering about the wisdom placing all the onus on boys and men to bring about the necessary transformation...Man Box etc all very worthy projects but is there a need for acknowledgement of the wider forces at play in a highly sexualised society. Some tabloids will loudly decry sexual assaults in front pages while carrying adds for all kinds of erotic experiences in back pages. And, what about the proliferation of internet pornography with powerful potential to incite violence in sexual realtionships. Is there a challenge to campaign for cultural shifts in society and to avoid simplistic blame-game solutions ? AJK 19 Mrach

A 2008 report, “A roof over every head”, found youth homelessness to be largely the result of no-fault divorce and single parenting.” In 2008, Barak Obama said, “Children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crimes (and) twenty times more likely to end up in prison.” Children have been prematurely assaulted by sexperts advocating sex education at younger ages, and evidence shows children acting out with other children porn they see on their screens. When black reporter Colion Noir examined San Francisco’s homeless problem and found hundreds of millions spent annually but no problems ever solved, he likened it to a money-making operation for non-profit organizations. And yet John Joseph Hughes converted a whole society of violent drunks and prostitutes into the nation’s finest citizens in one generation, with no government aid, simply by inculcating his flock with Christian virtues. How Dagger John Saved New York’s Irish | Irish in American Mainstream (city-journal.org) Chinese President Xi Jinping has told his nation to prepare for war, and his education department’s “Proposal to Prevent the Feminisation of Male Adolescents” aims at “cultivating student’s masculinity.” Forget the Men’s Project. Try Christian principles.

One of the problems about addressing the problem of what is termed 'rape culture' - which has a number of contributory factors - is to ensure you are both addressing the right issues and providing the right solutions. One of the contributory factors, I think, is the vile and dehumanizing porn which is so readily available and accessed on the internet. Some of the attitudes behind this porn are transiting across to reality TV and thus to normal human relationships, which is bad. The attitude and behaviour towards women in the wealthy and privileged enclave of Canberra are not good. Men and women need to learn how to properly relate socially without horrible things happening. Men need to learn how to help prevent these horrible things. Women need to learn both how to protect themselves and how to seek immediate and long term help in these situations. We need to renew society at its roots.

Thank you Matt for making many sound points. You could also consider what effect the all-male clergy has on the Catholic population. Clergy are dressed up and visible in the “Man Box” out the front of every liturgy, are they not? To only allow male leadership in the church is a real example of “destructive rigid adherence to masculine stereotypes”.

Several interesting and relevant comments about pornography. In 1988 The Commonwealth Parliament published the findings of the Joint Select Committee on Video Material. It was prompted by public concern over the availability of sexually explicit and violent media material. At the time there was seen no reason to change the laws about this at the time which are still in place. It was illegal then, as it still is, to show X rated material in public. There was a ban though on depictions of sex and violence together. That however was in the age of the video cassette, access to which was rather controlled and limited to those over 18 (which of course could still be accessed by minors in a household). It's different now with the internet, and maybe a revisiting of the issue with another parliamentary examination is due. I wonder though if the real issue is not the content of the porn itself, but whether it reinforces attitudes picked up by children at home. I don't mean seeing actual sex acts in the home (although you never know) but attitudes shown in parental behaviours and actions generally. I should mention that if children are deprived of sex education by parents or schools, they will pick it up elsewhere,and that includes watching porn. They will not be aware that such acts as shown in the videos are very contrived, as interviews done with actors and producers clearly show. Incidentally, interesting that for a long time the HQ and pioneers of porn (e.g., Playboy) are based in the U.S., with its generally puritanical attitudes to things even vaguely sexual.

If men were always perfect in their behaviour towards women, there would be no cosmic need for the Saviour to be a man. Dominance and subservience - ‘Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you’ – are two of the degraded fruits of the Fall. The Saviour is male because he has to heal the male principle of the unhealthy accretion of a mixed dominance and neediness. In the Messiah’s absence, the celibate priest models the self-assurance of the resurrected Christ, the perfection of the man Jesus, who is not needy and so has no need to dominate. Given that, in 40,000 years, there are no significant religious traditions founded by a woman, it would seem that the degradation of dominance by the male is such a strong theme that only a male could liberate the cosmos from that domination. The apotheosis of maleness is the self-assured celibate priest, happy in his independence of neediness and the need to dominate, with only one challenge remaining, the ability to control the tongue, the smallest and most fiery of all the organs.

Michelle, I agree with you on one level. The all male, supposedly 'celibate' clergy in the Latin Rite need to be augmented by married men. It will take away the 'sexless' image of priests. Married clergy are the norm in most Eastern Rite churches. This would mean the Church would need to pay decent wages, which is something many priests, now surviving on a pittance and with no superannuation, would welcome. The laity need an example of decent, married leadership. Seeing the high prestige priests are still held in, why not start there? The introduction of women clergy and bishops in some Provinces of the Anglican Communion has not been an unmixed success. Women deacons, who could operate very much like some superb Uniting Church ministers I know, by preaching, baptising and marrying, would, I think, be an excellent thing. Something the Vatican could stomach, I believe. Women priests, theologically, might be 'a bridge too far'. The Vatican has repeatedly stated this runs counter to the Magisterium.

Thanks Matt Tyler for this important discussion and to Michele and Edward thank for your contributions to this discussion. From Michele,To only allow male leadership in the church is a real example of “destructive rigid adherence to masculine stereotypes”. and from Edward, Women priests, theologically, might be 'a bridge too far'. The Vatican has repeatedly stated this runs counter to the Magisterium. But what if there is an error in the documents used to argue against women in the priesthood. Pope Joho Paul 11 proclaimed that women were made in the image of God and reversed two thousand years of scholarship where women were considered made in the image of man, however you can't have it both ways, either women are made in the image of God or they are made in the image of man, and if the citations of (1 Corinthians 11-7 and Genesis 2: 18-24)where it states women are made in the image of man, are used as supportive material in opposition to women becoming priests - then the argument against women priests is possibly flawed at chapter 4, paragraph 3 of “Inter Insigniores” And this error continues to be used in “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis” , and it may mean that the arguments from Inter Insigniores and Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and Mulieris Dignitatem, have to be revised or questioned on the whole issue, of "Permanent Value of the Attitutude of Jesus and the Apostles" see “Inter Insigniores chapter 4, paragraph 3.An apology to women is the least we could expect, and that the documents Inter Insigniores, Ordination Sacerdotalis and Mulieris Dignitatem be revised and that the incorrect citations used; be withdrawn immediately. Infallible, I think not! Please correct me if I'm wrong. Ros Beer

I am fully favour of equality in our society and worked for many years in a family refuge with many women suffering domestic violence. I have supported many of them in courts. My concern is the imbalance in the media which attributes all blame to men. Living in a beach side suburb it disturbs me that young women consider it fine to walk about town and travel on trains in minute bikinis. This side of the issue never appears in the media or comments, which ignore the reality of male sexuality. I guess the claws will be out now.

The assumption in some contributions on this here seems to be that power is the dominant reality in male-female relationships. In happy marriages - and there are still, despite the impression created by media preoccupation with dysfunctional ones, such partnerships - the prevailing dynamic is mutuality, manifest in consideration for the other and the ability to exercise self-sacrifice lovingly, as well as making the well-being of children in the marriage a priority. The practice of Christian virtues by both spouses and the cultivation of forgiveness are also effective antidotes to the distorting notion of male-female relationship a sort of power-contest.

''I guess the claws will be out now''? Really, Martin Blattman? Whose claws are you referring to? The 'claws' are these words of yours. Why do you feel the need to degrade Eureka Street female readers and commenters here? Men must be part of the solution to gendered violence (the title of this article). Please also do your part.

Ros Beer's reading of Scripture and the Sacred Congregation for the Faith's document "Inter Insigniores" raises some questions about sources and exegesis. For instance, " . . . 2,000 years of scholarship where women were considered made in the image of man", lacking a single relevant reference, stands as an unsubstantiated generalisation. Further, 1 Corinthians 11: 7 needs to be read in the context of the traditional distinctions made in "Inter Insigniores" between the permanent characteristics of the sacraments and changeable cultural aspects; and the Genesis reference cited (2: 18-24) expresses the complementary relationship between man and woman. Adam is portrayed as incomplete without Eve, rejoicing: "This at last is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh." (v.23). Accordingly, Eve shares Adam's status as being made in the image and likeness of God, and the passage cited cannot, it seems to me, (alleged 2,000 years' sexist scholarship notwithstanding), be unequivocally construed as supporting the notion of female inferiority.

Roy. A very significant Christian tradition alive and well today and responsible for major contributions to healthcare and both school and university education in many colleges within its tradition was founded by a woman, Ellen Gould White, The Seventh Day Adventists to whom I refer may to some appear theologically flawed by mainstream denominations but are nevertheless predominantly good people and genuine believers in Christ rather than pagan gods.

Ros Beer. All human beings are created in God's image. I would suggest that the image we replicate is that of a being with two dimensions, human and spiritual, as embodied by Christ. It does not refer exclusively to our human elements such as gender, physical appearance or particular individual talents. In Christian philosophy, Christ is God the Creator and it is thus highly likely that when he instructed his followers as to the constitution of his Church on Earth that he knew what he was talking about. He is a darned sight smarter than we are!! It is not for us to assume the administration of his Church according to human perceptions of equity or in accord with purely human traits.

Comments about women nver being named by the media for instigating sexual abuse or harrassment always troubles me. There is still this attitude among some men ( hopefully these attitudes are decreasing each year), that women are somehow to blame for being victims. All men, regardless of their experiences with women, or lack of them, need to be reminded that one woman is Australia is murdered by her male partner or ex-partner EVERY WEEK. If men ever feel they have been victimised by a woman, remember this factual statistic. Men need to urgently stop their 'brothers' from murdering women. This needs to be the focus of all debate on violence in Australia.

Ros Beer, thank you very much for your post. You have certainly raised some very valid and important points. I may not agree with you, but I respect where you are coming from. John RD has clearly stated the current Vatican stand on the Magisterium and I respect him on this too. Theologians and aficionados of Theology will no doubt continue debating this one. What I find interesting is that Fr Mark Goring CC, in discussing Fr James Martin SJ (let's not go there), brought out the important point that God is beyond human imagining and human sexual typing. This is from a priest who fully subscribes to the Doctrine of the Trinity as it is taught. My favourite image of God is The Burning Bush, which was on fire but not consumed by it. It is a bit like that.

Thank you 4 corners, for revealing the Truth about Parliament House. Dear Mr Scott Morrison. Please put the house you and yours occupy in order! It is in total and utter ruins. And a national disgrace!

John Frawley: You’re right, but by another route. While it was her husband’s religious newspaper that brought similarly-thinking believers together after Miller’s failed prophecy that Christ would return, by providing an alternative interpretation of the Bible verses Miller used, and her prophecies provided cement for the movement later on, White lived at the same time as Mary Baker Eddy who was the founder of Christian Science. So, the milieu was there in America for a woman, or at least one with beliefs tolerable to the Christian and constitutional culture of the then society, to establish a religion. Which brings us to your front door, Doctor: what is the scope for disease to be spiritually healed? Given that that is really a question of how you can infuse Justice with Mercy without compromising Justice or Mercy, ie., the mechanics of divine judgement, it’s not surprising that spiritual healing only works when it works. At the Universal Judgement, God will be obliged to show that everything he did was just AND merciful, which means that every instance of spiritual healing has to be compatible with justice and mercy to each of 107 billion (and counting) souls.

A Clockwork Mango called Parliament? How different is it to : A Clockwork Orange, the movie that ends on a controversial note, and differs from that of the original novel? While Burgess’ Alex is a victim of the state, Kubrick’s Alex is an accomplice, (like many accomplices at Parliament, whose silence now is a lie that screams at the light) to the state’s machinations, wherein he agrees to cooperate with state-( Parliament?) imposed limitations in exchange for socially-acceptable delinquency. Kubrick omits most of the novel’s ethical actions, providing a cruel, albeit realistic verdict of humanity, the nature of good and evil, and what it means to function in a society (Parliament?) that disregards the very foundation of the human soul. Alex, is a thug with the state behind him. Brittany Higgins' rapist a is thug with Parliament behind him.

Peter Coghlan: The prioritised focus you favour must be careful that it does not overlook and alienate men who have been seriously victimised by women and will not be assuaged by statistical argument that appears to neglect acknowledgement of their needs. All victims matter.

laming the victim again Martin? Shades of 'the woman gave it to me'. Why shouldn't anyone - male or female - be able to walk about safely in whatever clothing they chose?

I wish that I had your confidence in the efficacy of 'Christian principles, Ross. The federal parliamentary 'Prayer Group' includes 19 coalition members, of whom 15 are male, including the PM. That's about 1 in 6 of the total coalition numbers, yet I'm not aware that any of them have called out any of their colleagues over grossly appalling behaviour of them or their staffers. What's the point of being a 'prayer group' if they take no action to put their principles to work?

So what does the expression 'wearing the pants' say about the roles of men and women in western society, John RD, if not the relative authority of men over women?

Perhaps, Ginger, less than, or about as much as: "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world"; and: "Behind every successful man is a successful woman."? "We're all in this together", since we're now dealing in cliches, might also be relevant.

Peter Coghlan’s ‘statistical argument’ doesn’t ‘appear’ to me to ‘overlook’ anyone’s ‘needs’. Of course ‘all victims matter’ but like Morrison’s reference to ‘glass houses’ it only seeks to divert attention from one’s own responsibility. Just as the assertions that most child abuse occurred within the family sought to divert attention to the abuse and cover-up within the church.

Roy. You ask, "Want is the scope for disease to be spiritually healed?" That question was recently put to a very large cohort (can't recall just how any - but many thousands) of practising doctors in America. 70% of respondents claimed experience of healing of physical disease that couldn't be explained by current medical science and could be described as miracles. On another tack, over the last one and a half centuries there have been many thousands of "miraculous" healings at the grotto in Lourdes through the intercession of Notre Dame de Lourdes. As you are no doubt aware, there is a major hospital at Lourdes where over the last 110 years or so the Catholic Church has documented apparent healings of "incurable" disease investigated by a medical commission of specialist practitioners in many fields. Of all the thousands of cases investigated, the Church has ratified a mere 16 as miracles. Amongst those investigated there are a number of famous cures beyond the powers of Medicine that have not been ratified. I believe that miracles sometimes happen - as Christ demonstrated during his sojourn amongst his people on Earth. Belief is a bugger of a thing sometimes - with often unwelcome consequences!!!

Now that Michaela Cash, will be replacing Christian Porter, It would be to her, all members of Parliament, and to the Australian public's, advantage for her to come out and speak more specifically about the rumours, regarding staffers....that have been going around for many, many or years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brSSfl1STLE

Are you really asserting, John RD, that that power has not been, and is still not, the dominant reality in male-female relationships in government, business, domestic and, dare I say it, religious, situations? In the light of all the evidence about the abuse of women by men in domestic situations, the subordination of women by men in employment situations, the treatment of women by men in political situations, the belittling of women by men in religious situations...and so on ?

"All victims matter" doesn't necessarily 'divert attention from one's own responsibility', Ginger. It calls attention to and includes those by-passed in catchy slogans such as 'Black Lives Matter' - for instance, the victims of abortion in the same community whose slogan states the acceptably and irrefutably obvious, to the omission and neglect of significant members and numbers who are black. This isn't, I'd hope you'd concur, merely a pedantic matter.

I was simply responding to your recourse to cliche with two alternative ones, Ginger. What I'm saying, Ginger, is that so long as male-female relationships are conceived exclusively or predominantly in terms of "power" nothing that needs changing will change.